Orissa Argues About Polavaram Dam With Expert Panel
PTI | Bhubaneswar | May 27, 2011
Strongly objecting to the construction of multi-purpose Polavaram dam in Andhra Pradesh, the Orissa government has drawn the attention of the Supreme Court-appointed expert committee to four different aspects of the project, including the design, officials said today.
The state government along with neighbouring Chhattisgarh in a joint memorandum to the expert committee, headed by Gopalkrishna, said that the Polavaram project would adversely affect the two states if its design was not changed, said Water Resource secretary Suresh Mohapatra.
While Polavaram project was initially made with a capacity for flow of 36 lakh cusecs, it was later increased to 50 lakh cusecs after changing its original design, he said.
The state government, represented during a spot verification by the committee at the project site by engineer-in-chief Harish Behera, said the proposed embankment in a river in Orissa, would lead to the submergence of many tribal villages in Malkangiri district.
Besides, Behera also pointed out that the mandatory palli sabha (village council) meeting was not held in areas likely to be affected due to the project. "Therefore, we have every reason to oppose the project," Behera said.
Earlier, the state government had moved the Supreme Court seeking a halt to the Polavaram project as it was allegedly being constructed by violating several laws and an agreement between Orissa and Andhra Pradesh.
Saturday, May 28, 2011
Sunday, May 15, 2011
Water Conflict in Brahmani
Odisha Farmer leader to start indefinite hunger strike from 23rd Mayhttp://www.blogger.com/img/blank.gif
Report by Orissa Diary correspondent; Dhenkanal: The rengali right canal project has been started from the very beginning of 1996, the total expense till date is 723 crores, the proposed irrigated land will be 1 lakh 4 thousand 92 hector. Whereas, out of this irrigated land Lanco industry got 376 hector, GMR kamalang got 455 hector and NTPC, Cesc & Chambal got thousands of hectors.
The District administration favors illegally to the corporate whereas the farmers’ face a lots of problems in the district. The latest example is the Talabarakote village, where the Horticulture gave 2 lakh 20 thousand 543 rupees for Pamolin farming in 51.8 acres. But, astonishingly, now these 51.8 acres of land was donated to the proposed NTPC unit along with thousands of acres of kaju plantation. Installation of 6 electronic traffic systems in a small city like Dhenkanal with the help of 35 Lakhs from Lanco & NTPC establishes the nexus between the district body & the corporate.
There was a tender fixing of 6.25 crores in the Left canal and crores & crores in the right canal project, where the quality of construction & work is very poor. The vigilance knows everything, but it was silent. This shows the integrity of the district administration for eradication of the corruption.
The assistant director of factories & boilers of dhenkanal filed 46 cases against the Bhusan company in the hon’ble court of the SDJM, Dhenkanal. But, he does not know the number of hearings. That means, we’ll go on making cases against the companies, but not thinking of the hearings or judgments’. This proves the exact aim of the director.
The ministry of environment & forests of government of India suspended the final approval under section 2 of the Forest ( Conservation ) Act, 1980 for diversion of 61.48 ha of revenue forest / DPF in Dhenkanal & Angul districts of odisha for setting up of an integrated steel plant by Bhusan steel & strips limited on 11th December 2006 and ordered the state government to take serious actions against the violators. But till date no action was taken by the administration.
The assistant engineer & BDO of the sadar block make serious corruptions having nexus with selected contractors.
The assistant general manager of the supply corporation make a scam of around 5 crores with the help of 19 milers during 2009 -10 paddy procurement by taking lakhs of gunny-bags of the farmers illegally.
The 27 farm ponds done by the soil conservation department has not gone to the real beneficiaries.
ICOMM, the contractor of village level electrification in dhenkanal, on 8th april 2010 tried to make electrical connections at karadabani of nihalprasad thana without taking prior permission, for which one innocent labor of ICOMM from khamar thana Dibakar Behera burnt by electric-shock & then died. But, till date no enquiry was done by the departments.
9.86 acres of debottar land was given by the district administration to the ARSS company for establishment of a mega crosser unit at Nityanandapur, by not obeying the judgment of the hon’ble high court given during 1961. Also the enquiry report regarding this made by the continuing sub-collector Biswanath Acharya has been deliberately misplaced by the officials.
From the above serious points, you can easily think up the integrity of the district administration and their feelings for the poor & the farmers. The elected representatives & party leaders are only thinking for the betterment of themselves & their respective parties. This hurts a lot to the most – innocent dhenkanal people. They’re now self – motivated for any type of agitations for the cause of their right to live in a democratic country like India.
For this, only by a call of krishak sangharsh samiti, nearly 5 thousand farmers from all panchayats of the district rushed to the collector’s office with their own vehicle arrangements on 30th march 2011 and handed over a note of 35 demands to the collector for the governor.
On 4th April at 10.30 am Dhenkanal collector Girish S.N. discussed with , the convener of krishak sangharsh samiti and eminent farmer leader Er. Debashisha Hota, regarding the problems of the farmers to find out the practical & immediate solutions. The scheduled meeting was attended by the PD-DRDA, Dhenkanal Sub-collector, Minor Irrigation Executive Engineer, Flood Executive Engineer, presidents of all Pani-Pachayats, District Civil Supplies Officer and Deputy Director of agriculture. The important demands agreed by the collector are vigilance enquiry to unfold the corruption of crores of rupees in paddy procurement, high-level enquiry for the illegal selling of Sri Raghunathjew lands to ARSS for a mega crosser unit at Nityanandapur, transfer the elephants to the nearest wild-life, change the venue of Gajamara NTPC proposed unit to some other area having more non-agricultural lands, take serious action against Bhusan steel, BRG steel & Rana sponge for their uncontrolled air & water pollution, stop giving river & canal water and agricultural lands for industrialization and agricultural industries should be encouraged.
Today, at the conference hall of hotel debkanya, a press meet was done by the district committee of Krishak Sangharsh Samiti, where Er. Hota threatened for hunger strike till death from coming 23rd May for the sake of the poor farmers of this district, since the collector has disobeyed the agreed 20 demands.
The district secretary Niranjan Sahoo, district treasurer Ranjan Kumar Lenka, district executive body members Pravakar Poi, Sribatsa Biswal, Brajabandhu Sethy, Bijay Ketan Pradhan, Kuna Naik, Kamakhyanagar Block President Pramod Kumar Sethy, Kankadahad Block President Vagirathi Baral & Odapada Block President Sudhakar Sahu, threatened to paralyze the entire district after 23rd May, if the collector disobeys his own decisions.
Report by Orissa Diary correspondent; Dhenkanal: The rengali right canal project has been started from the very beginning of 1996, the total expense till date is 723 crores, the proposed irrigated land will be 1 lakh 4 thousand 92 hector. Whereas, out of this irrigated land Lanco industry got 376 hector, GMR kamalang got 455 hector and NTPC, Cesc & Chambal got thousands of hectors.
The District administration favors illegally to the corporate whereas the farmers’ face a lots of problems in the district. The latest example is the Talabarakote village, where the Horticulture gave 2 lakh 20 thousand 543 rupees for Pamolin farming in 51.8 acres. But, astonishingly, now these 51.8 acres of land was donated to the proposed NTPC unit along with thousands of acres of kaju plantation. Installation of 6 electronic traffic systems in a small city like Dhenkanal with the help of 35 Lakhs from Lanco & NTPC establishes the nexus between the district body & the corporate.
There was a tender fixing of 6.25 crores in the Left canal and crores & crores in the right canal project, where the quality of construction & work is very poor. The vigilance knows everything, but it was silent. This shows the integrity of the district administration for eradication of the corruption.
The assistant director of factories & boilers of dhenkanal filed 46 cases against the Bhusan company in the hon’ble court of the SDJM, Dhenkanal. But, he does not know the number of hearings. That means, we’ll go on making cases against the companies, but not thinking of the hearings or judgments’. This proves the exact aim of the director.
The ministry of environment & forests of government of India suspended the final approval under section 2 of the Forest ( Conservation ) Act, 1980 for diversion of 61.48 ha of revenue forest / DPF in Dhenkanal & Angul districts of odisha for setting up of an integrated steel plant by Bhusan steel & strips limited on 11th December 2006 and ordered the state government to take serious actions against the violators. But till date no action was taken by the administration.
The assistant engineer & BDO of the sadar block make serious corruptions having nexus with selected contractors.
The assistant general manager of the supply corporation make a scam of around 5 crores with the help of 19 milers during 2009 -10 paddy procurement by taking lakhs of gunny-bags of the farmers illegally.
The 27 farm ponds done by the soil conservation department has not gone to the real beneficiaries.
ICOMM, the contractor of village level electrification in dhenkanal, on 8th april 2010 tried to make electrical connections at karadabani of nihalprasad thana without taking prior permission, for which one innocent labor of ICOMM from khamar thana Dibakar Behera burnt by electric-shock & then died. But, till date no enquiry was done by the departments.
9.86 acres of debottar land was given by the district administration to the ARSS company for establishment of a mega crosser unit at Nityanandapur, by not obeying the judgment of the hon’ble high court given during 1961. Also the enquiry report regarding this made by the continuing sub-collector Biswanath Acharya has been deliberately misplaced by the officials.
From the above serious points, you can easily think up the integrity of the district administration and their feelings for the poor & the farmers. The elected representatives & party leaders are only thinking for the betterment of themselves & their respective parties. This hurts a lot to the most – innocent dhenkanal people. They’re now self – motivated for any type of agitations for the cause of their right to live in a democratic country like India.
For this, only by a call of krishak sangharsh samiti, nearly 5 thousand farmers from all panchayats of the district rushed to the collector’s office with their own vehicle arrangements on 30th march 2011 and handed over a note of 35 demands to the collector for the governor.
On 4th April at 10.30 am Dhenkanal collector Girish S.N. discussed with , the convener of krishak sangharsh samiti and eminent farmer leader Er. Debashisha Hota, regarding the problems of the farmers to find out the practical & immediate solutions. The scheduled meeting was attended by the PD-DRDA, Dhenkanal Sub-collector, Minor Irrigation Executive Engineer, Flood Executive Engineer, presidents of all Pani-Pachayats, District Civil Supplies Officer and Deputy Director of agriculture. The important demands agreed by the collector are vigilance enquiry to unfold the corruption of crores of rupees in paddy procurement, high-level enquiry for the illegal selling of Sri Raghunathjew lands to ARSS for a mega crosser unit at Nityanandapur, transfer the elephants to the nearest wild-life, change the venue of Gajamara NTPC proposed unit to some other area having more non-agricultural lands, take serious action against Bhusan steel, BRG steel & Rana sponge for their uncontrolled air & water pollution, stop giving river & canal water and agricultural lands for industrialization and agricultural industries should be encouraged.
Today, at the conference hall of hotel debkanya, a press meet was done by the district committee of Krishak Sangharsh Samiti, where Er. Hota threatened for hunger strike till death from coming 23rd May for the sake of the poor farmers of this district, since the collector has disobeyed the agreed 20 demands.
The district secretary Niranjan Sahoo, district treasurer Ranjan Kumar Lenka, district executive body members Pravakar Poi, Sribatsa Biswal, Brajabandhu Sethy, Bijay Ketan Pradhan, Kuna Naik, Kamakhyanagar Block President Pramod Kumar Sethy, Kankadahad Block President Vagirathi Baral & Odapada Block President Sudhakar Sahu, threatened to paralyze the entire district after 23rd May, if the collector disobeys his own decisions.
Tuesday, May 3, 2011
Power Politics in Water
Odisha Government approved proposal of two power projects in the state
Report by Orissa Diary correspondent; Bhubaneswar: The single window committee under the chairmanship of the Chief Secretary Bijay Kumar Patnaik has approved proposal of two power projects in the state. M/S Praima Power and Infra Ltd will set up a 60 MW production capacity power plant at Gania of Nayagarh district with an investment of Rs 300 crore . About 80 persons will be employed and it will use water of Mahanadi river.
Similarly M/S Konark Kranti Energy Ltd will set up a 110 MW power plant at Baghiapada of Boudh district with an investment of Rs 435 crore . About 70 persons will be employed and it also use Mahanadi river water.
Report by Orissa Diary correspondent; Bhubaneswar: The single window committee under the chairmanship of the Chief Secretary Bijay Kumar Patnaik has approved proposal of two power projects in the state. M/S Praima Power and Infra Ltd will set up a 60 MW production capacity power plant at Gania of Nayagarh district with an investment of Rs 300 crore . About 80 persons will be employed and it will use water of Mahanadi river.
Similarly M/S Konark Kranti Energy Ltd will set up a 110 MW power plant at Baghiapada of Boudh district with an investment of Rs 435 crore . About 70 persons will be employed and it also use Mahanadi river water.
Tuesday, April 26, 2011
Mapping of rivers under consideration
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BHUBANESWAR: Orissa is contemplating mapping all river systems in the State on various parameters in the wake of pollution being perceived due to release of waste water by industries and urban local bodies into rivers.
“While allocation of river water for agriculture and industrial purposes is a highly debated subject, quality of river water is slowly emerging a major concern. We are thinking of preparing indices for each river,” State Forest and Environment Secretary Aurobindo Behera said one the sidelines of a seminar here on Sunday.
“We would like to know where we are on different parameters such as quality, quantity, usage and discharge of waste water being released into river water by industries and urban local bodies,” Mr. Behera said.
The Forest and Environment Secretary said the present policy and enforcement mechanism to tackle river pollutions also needed to be reexamined.
“Moreover, urban centres are expanding across the State. The daily effluent being generated from cities are also dumped in rivers. It will create a problem in future,” he said.
The State government has signed a memorandum of understanding with private companies for close to 100 projects including steel manufacturing, thermal power and alumina refinery.
According to industries department, about 30 projects in the steel sector have started partial production in addition to about 100 sponge iron units. Most of the upcoming industrial and mining projects are coming up depending on water in rivers like Mahanadi, Brahmani and Baitarani.
http://www.hindu.com/2011/04/25/stories/2011042561790400.htm
http://www.blogger.com/img/blank.gif
BHUBANESWAR: Orissa is contemplating mapping all river systems in the State on various parameters in the wake of pollution being perceived due to release of waste water by industries and urban local bodies into rivers.
“While allocation of river water for agriculture and industrial purposes is a highly debated subject, quality of river water is slowly emerging a major concern. We are thinking of preparing indices for each river,” State Forest and Environment Secretary Aurobindo Behera said one the sidelines of a seminar here on Sunday.
“We would like to know where we are on different parameters such as quality, quantity, usage and discharge of waste water being released into river water by industries and urban local bodies,” Mr. Behera said.
The Forest and Environment Secretary said the present policy and enforcement mechanism to tackle river pollutions also needed to be reexamined.
“Moreover, urban centres are expanding across the State. The daily effluent being generated from cities are also dumped in rivers. It will create a problem in future,” he said.
The State government has signed a memorandum of understanding with private companies for close to 100 projects including steel manufacturing, thermal power and alumina refinery.
According to industries department, about 30 projects in the steel sector have started partial production in addition to about 100 sponge iron units. Most of the upcoming industrial and mining projects are coming up depending on water in rivers like Mahanadi, Brahmani and Baitarani.
http://www.hindu.com/2011/04/25/stories/2011042561790400.htm
Friday, April 15, 2011
River Linking
India priortises 5 river interlinking projectshttp://www.blogger.com/img/blank.gif
Out of a total 30 river linking projects, the government has shortlisted five including the Godavari-Krishna and Dawan-Ganga-Pinjal schemes
Published on 04/15/2011 - 09:52:54 AM
Kolkata: The central government is currently giving priority to five river interlinking projects, including the Godavari-Krishna and Dawan-Ganga-Pinjal schemes, a senior official said.
"There are a total of 30 river linking projects. We are now giving priority to five," Central Water Commission Chairman AK Bajaj said.
The five projects include Ken-Betwa rivers interlink between Madhya Pradesh and Uttar Pradesh, Par-Tapi-Narmada rivers and Dawan-Ganga-Pinjal rivers between Gujarat and Maharashtra, Chambal-Kali-Sindh rivers between Rajasthan and Madhya Pradesh, and Godavari-Krishna rivers between Andhra Pradesh and Karnataka, Bajaj said.
According to him, Uttar Pradesh, Madhya Pradesh, Gujarat and Maharashtra have agreed to share water with other states, but states like Orissa and Chhattisgarh were raising some issues, reports IANS.
On India's water sharing with other countries, Bajaj said: "Our country has water sharing treaties with all SAARC nations, except Sri Lanka."
"Nepal is not sharing water with us, but Bhutan is pragmatic in water sharing as 50 per cent of the country's gross domestic product comes from selling electricity," Bajaj added.
Out of a total 30 river linking projects, the government has shortlisted five including the Godavari-Krishna and Dawan-Ganga-Pinjal schemes
Published on 04/15/2011 - 09:52:54 AM
Kolkata: The central government is currently giving priority to five river interlinking projects, including the Godavari-Krishna and Dawan-Ganga-Pinjal schemes, a senior official said.
"There are a total of 30 river linking projects. We are now giving priority to five," Central Water Commission Chairman AK Bajaj said.
The five projects include Ken-Betwa rivers interlink between Madhya Pradesh and Uttar Pradesh, Par-Tapi-Narmada rivers and Dawan-Ganga-Pinjal rivers between Gujarat and Maharashtra, Chambal-Kali-Sindh rivers between Rajasthan and Madhya Pradesh, and Godavari-Krishna rivers between Andhra Pradesh and Karnataka, Bajaj said.
According to him, Uttar Pradesh, Madhya Pradesh, Gujarat and Maharashtra have agreed to share water with other states, but states like Orissa and Chhattisgarh were raising some issues, reports IANS.
On India's water sharing with other countries, Bajaj said: "Our country has water sharing treaties with all SAARC nations, except Sri Lanka."
"Nepal is not sharing water with us, but Bhutan is pragmatic in water sharing as 50 per cent of the country's gross domestic product comes from selling electricity," Bajaj added.
Monday, April 4, 2011
Polavaram Politics
Chhattisgarh to file petition in SC soon
BS Reporter / Kolkata/ Bhubaneswar April 05, 201http://www.blogger.com/img/blank.gif1, 0:39 IST
No difference of opinion with Orissa, says Chhattisgarh minister
The row over the controversial Polavaram project is set to intensify further with the Chhattisgarh government bracing itself to file a petition in the Supreme Court of India, keeping in view the interests of its affected people.
"The negotiations with the Orissa Chief Minister were optimistic. There is no difference of opinion with the Orissa government on the Polavaram project. We are soon going to file a petition in the Supreme Court keeping in view the concerns of the people of our state to be affected by the project", Vikram Usendi, minister (forest, public enterprises & public grievances), Chhattisgarh government told media persons after emerging out of a meeting with the Orissa Chief Minister Naveen Patnaik.
"We don't have any difference of opinion with the Chhattisgarh government as far as the Polavaram project is concerned", said Suresh Mohapatra, principal secretary (water resources), Orissa government.
Meanwhile, the hearing on the Polavaram project in the apex court has been deferred till next Monday. The Andhra Pradesh government today filed the names of three experts- M Gopalakrishnan, B M Ahuja and J Hassan with the apex court.
It may be noted that on last Friday, the Supreme Court had pulled up the Andhra Pradesh government for its failure to submit names of experts in connection with the Polavaram project within the time-frame stipulated by the court.
The Orissa government has already filed the names of experts with the apex court.
The members of the expert committee constituted by the Orissa government are Anil D Mohile, former chairman of the Central Water Commission (CWC), D K Goswami, professor of IIT-Delhi and M Perumal, professor of IIT-Roorkee.
In accordance with the direction of the Supreme Court, Orissa had constituted a three-member expert committee to examine various issues pertaining to the controversial Polavaram project.
The Orissa government had approached the Supreme Court on September 4 last year, challenging the Centre's decision to give final environmental clearance for the project.
On October 4 last year, the apex court had asked the Government of India to file its response within a month to the petition filed by the Orissa government in connection with the controversial Polavaram project.
In its suit, Orissa had sought a declaration that Andhra Pradesh had no right or entitlement to undertake or proceed with the Polavaram project on the Godavari river. It had also stated that embankments were not permanent solutions to effectively contain submergence during floods.
Moreover, the extent of submergence due to design flood (which had been revised to 50 lakh cusecs from the original 36 lakh cusecs by the CWC itself) and the backwater effect along the Sabari and Sileru limbs (flowing through Orissa territory into the Godavari in Andhra Pradesh) had been finalised by the CWC without estimating the flood contributions from these limbs separately by following any rational procedure or acceptable norm, according to the petition filed by the Orissa government.
As per the estimates of the state government, the project was likely to submerge 2119.38 hectares of land in Naxalite-affected tribal areas of Malkangiri .
BS Reporter / Kolkata/ Bhubaneswar April 05, 201http://www.blogger.com/img/blank.gif1, 0:39 IST
No difference of opinion with Orissa, says Chhattisgarh minister
The row over the controversial Polavaram project is set to intensify further with the Chhattisgarh government bracing itself to file a petition in the Supreme Court of India, keeping in view the interests of its affected people.
"The negotiations with the Orissa Chief Minister were optimistic. There is no difference of opinion with the Orissa government on the Polavaram project. We are soon going to file a petition in the Supreme Court keeping in view the concerns of the people of our state to be affected by the project", Vikram Usendi, minister (forest, public enterprises & public grievances), Chhattisgarh government told media persons after emerging out of a meeting with the Orissa Chief Minister Naveen Patnaik.
"We don't have any difference of opinion with the Chhattisgarh government as far as the Polavaram project is concerned", said Suresh Mohapatra, principal secretary (water resources), Orissa government.
Meanwhile, the hearing on the Polavaram project in the apex court has been deferred till next Monday. The Andhra Pradesh government today filed the names of three experts- M Gopalakrishnan, B M Ahuja and J Hassan with the apex court.
It may be noted that on last Friday, the Supreme Court had pulled up the Andhra Pradesh government for its failure to submit names of experts in connection with the Polavaram project within the time-frame stipulated by the court.
The Orissa government has already filed the names of experts with the apex court.
The members of the expert committee constituted by the Orissa government are Anil D Mohile, former chairman of the Central Water Commission (CWC), D K Goswami, professor of IIT-Delhi and M Perumal, professor of IIT-Roorkee.
In accordance with the direction of the Supreme Court, Orissa had constituted a three-member expert committee to examine various issues pertaining to the controversial Polavaram project.
The Orissa government had approached the Supreme Court on September 4 last year, challenging the Centre's decision to give final environmental clearance for the project.
On October 4 last year, the apex court had asked the Government of India to file its response within a month to the petition filed by the Orissa government in connection with the controversial Polavaram project.
In its suit, Orissa had sought a declaration that Andhra Pradesh had no right or entitlement to undertake or proceed with the Polavaram project on the Godavari river. It had also stated that embankments were not permanent solutions to effectively contain submergence during floods.
Moreover, the extent of submergence due to design flood (which had been revised to 50 lakh cusecs from the original 36 lakh cusecs by the CWC itself) and the backwater effect along the Sabari and Sileru limbs (flowing through Orissa territory into the Godavari in Andhra Pradesh) had been finalised by the CWC without estimating the flood contributions from these limbs separately by following any rational procedure or acceptable norm, according to the petition filed by the Orissa government.
As per the estimates of the state government, the project was likely to submerge 2119.38 hectares of land in Naxalite-affected tribal areas of Malkangiri .
Chhattisgarh delegation meets Odisha CM over problems of drinking water in Jagdalpur
Report by Orissa Diary correspondent; Bhubaneswar: A high level delegation from Chhattisgarh meets Orissa CM Naveen Patnaik at Bhubaneswar on Monday. The delegation of Chhattisgarh has discussed with the Chief Minister on Monday in the Orissa Secretariat on the problems of drinking water in Jagdalpur of Chhattisgarh.
The Chief Minister has directed to construct two barrages on Indrâvati river and Ghora canal. The funds will be given by the Chhattisgarh government for construction of above two projects. After construction of abovetwo projects, the drinking water problem of Jagdalpur will be solved.
The delegation of Chhatisgarh headed by the Minister of Forest Bikram Ussendi discussed with the Chief Minister. Secretary of Water Resources Suresh Chandra Mohapatra and other senior officers were present at the time of discussion.
Report by Orissa Diary correspondent; Bhubaneswar: A high level delegation from Chhattisgarh meets Orissa CM Naveen Patnaik at Bhubaneswar on Monday. The delegation of Chhattisgarh has discussed with the Chief Minister on Monday in the Orissa Secretariat on the problems of drinking water in Jagdalpur of Chhattisgarh.
The Chief Minister has directed to construct two barrages on Indrâvati river and Ghora canal. The funds will be given by the Chhattisgarh government for construction of above two projects. After construction of abovetwo projects, the drinking water problem of Jagdalpur will be solved.
The delegation of Chhatisgarh headed by the Minister of Forest Bikram Ussendi discussed with the Chief Minister. Secretary of Water Resources Suresh Chandra Mohapatra and other senior officers were present at the time of discussion.
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